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ionic 'anti gravity' propulsion

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inventive47
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ionic 'anti gravity' propulsion

#0, by inventive47, 19 January 2011 02:32 AM

This is off topic but a really cool device exists which hovers when charged to a high voltage.  You can find it on youtube under Lifter - anti gravity .   Myth Busters  did a section on it, it uses the  bifield Brown effect.  Sadly it does not work in a vacuum.  It is a weak force of ions going from the very thin wire in a triangle frame made of balsa down to the aluminum skirt below.  It is a mysterious effect and is too weak to support it's own power supply and high voltage circuits.   30,000 volts is hard to come by......or is it?
.   If gravity is already negated by a helium ship, this lifter technology could borrow power from the battery supply.
A square foot of these triangles could produce about one half pound of thrust.   100 square feet, 50 pounds of thrust, and so on.   I don't' think that proximity to the ground makes it stronger, however it does hover at a specific height in the videos.   It may be possible to run this thing off of the static charge that can gather on the large surface area of the skin of a ship after a flight.   I don't know enough about static to know how to feed it through the mechanism since static is very much a slave to position and location and not subject to traveling down wires to where it doesn't want to go.   So, someone smarter than I am will have to figure out if static and be turned into repulsion when it is needed, to soften a landing, or, if turned on it's side to add propulsion.     If this could hover a heavy ship it is possible that a person could leave the ship without it floating away on it's own.   On the other hand, you might be struck by lightning while approaching this ship.   This is along the theory of the repulsors on  the hover ships from the Matrix movies.
.     The only application I can find for these light weight repulsors is when combined with an air ship.   I only feel that there must be a better method of providing this lifter effect instead of using high voltage wires.   I wonder if anyone has done this with plastic sheeting?

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dude6935
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Re: ionic 'anti gravity' propulsion

#1, by dude6935, 26 January 2011 06:41 AM



I think an ionocraft would make a great propulsion device for an airship. I tried to find a forum where people are working on ionocraft, but I couldn't find anything. Something to keep in mind to look into once we have something flying. 

Anyway, here is a legit paper on the subject. http://www.wbabin.net/physics/borg1.pdf

I also think this is topical, so I have moved and retitled the thread to facilitate discussion. 

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swampie777
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Re: ionic 'anti gravity' propulsion

#2, by swampie777, 28 January 2011 09:53 PM

I believe we need to keep the focus on buoyant lift for an affordable ship.

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dude6935
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Re: ionic 'anti gravity' propulsion

#3, by dude6935, 29 January 2011 02:06 AM

I think this idea has more use as a propulsion system than a lift system. Specifically, I think an ionic wind system could reduce drag by reducing separation and/or turbulence. 

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inventive47
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Re: ionic 'anti gravity' propulsion

#4, by inventive47, 29 January 2011 06:58 AM

I don't think that the lifters on youtube are achieving the lift per square foot that I was hoping for.   I am wondering if the higher voltage offered by static charges could make up the difference.  Ten times the voltage?  If the charge replenishes fast enough it could run the ionic propulsion.   As a lifter it would be used to hover a slightly heavy ship without touching the ground.   This was my first thought since this is what the lifter does, I agree, that forward propulsion would be more useful.

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mikek
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Re: ionic 'anti gravity' propulsion

#5, by mikek, 29 January 2011 04:14 PM

  What you are not seeing in the U-tube displays of ionic propulsion is the huge, heavy Tesla coil that powers it. A ten pound coil providing a few ounces of thrust, not to mention the weight of the power supply.
  It would be nice if the static charge a ship builds could power an ionic drive, but my spidey sense says it is way too weak.

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swampie777
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Re: ionic 'anti gravity' propulsion

#6, by swampie777, 29 January 2011 06:46 PM

I agree with mikek, we need to adhere to the practical application of science and engineering to our quest.

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dude6935
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Re: ionic 'anti gravity' propulsion

#7, by dude6935, 29 January 2011 08:35 PM


Ionic wind propulsion can be practical. It has already been used successfully on models. 

There aren't heavy coils holding up these "lifters". They work, they just don't have enough lift to carry a power source on board. When lift is provided by buoyancy, they work much better. 

http://www.festo.com/cms/en-us_us/4991.htm
http://www3.festo.com/__C1256D56002E7B89.nsf/html/b_IONIC_Airfish_en.pdf/$FILE/b_IONIC_Airfish_en.pdf



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mikek
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Re: ionic 'anti gravity' propulsion

#8, by mikek, 29 January 2011 11:24 PM

The Festo people do such beautiful work. I wonder how they get those shapes, I don't see any seams. I would like to see the workings of the ion drive. If this model can lift it, that is impressive. It's also impressive how they have blended the drive right into the shape of the ship.

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inventing_man
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Re: ionic 'anti gravity' propulsion

#9, by inventing_man, 30 January 2011 04:08 PM

  I  did  find  a way  to  make  ribs  inside  a  balloon foil  envelope  ,  using  Styrene  foam  and  balsa  cap  strips  .  You cut  the foam  into  Hollow  airfoil  shape  ribs ,  glue  the  thin  balsa  cap strips over  the  edge ,  then  wrap  strips  of  Balloon foil  ( heat seal side out ) around  the ribs using  a  good  quality tape   to  start  and finish  the  strips  pulling  tight .   Then  the  envelope  is  heat  sealed onto  the  cap  strips  . The  balsa cap  strips  keeps  the  foam  rib  from  melting away  as you  apply  pressure  with the  sealing iron . 
 Once  the  envelope is complete and  inflated    take enforced  packing tape  and  tape from  the outside  to put  a tight  band  around the  heat  seamed  rib  so it  is less likely to  separate under pressure  .  
  You get  a  wide  seam  area this way ,  and  a  " structure "    where as  trying  with  just  balloon  foil  ribs  ( like  fabric ribs  a para glider wing has )  they pulled  apart  under inflation  pressure very  quick 
 The  hollowed out  foam  ribs and balsa caps   are very light  weight  even using  3/4 to 1 inch  thick  foam stock   .   Gorilla Glue   sticks the  balsa to the foam  100%

Anti gravity prevents slips, trips, and falls. Get some today !
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